Literary Discussions

(9-3-2000)

A Teenage Girl Questions Sexual Morality

(I had this chat in Yahoo.com Hindu chat room with a 15 year old girl in India. I have given her the fictitious name "Manjoola", to protect her identity. Her real name is not Manjoola.)

Manjoola: Sitaram. Can you tell me the reason behind idol worship in Hinduism?

Sitaram: An idol is like a focal point for man, God is invited to dwell in idol during worship. In Old Testament Bible, King Solomon and King David built a "house" for God, a temple, a dwelling...so in a way the Jewish temple is not so different from a Moorty (idol).

Manjoola: Another question, a very different question: What is wrong to have sex with more than one person?

Sitaram: Unsanitary, health risks, for one of many many reasons.

Manjoola: But human beings enjoy it, why not have a variety?

The Hare Krishna groups are very strict for example.. even for a married couple... sex is only permitted once a month when pregnancy is desired... and as soon as the woman is pregnant, sex must stop

At other end of spectrum, are Bhagwan Rajneesh (Osho) groups which encourage even group sex... and believe that you will "tire" of it eventually and become more "spiritual"..."detached"...

There are other Hindu groups which are not so strict... it all depends on how fast you want to achieve Liberation or Moksha...

I personally wish I could be like Ghandi was and practice Brahmacharyia... but I am not ready yet

If you still have a great desire for sex... you will have sex... but you can still pray... read religious scriptures... worship... but you will keep being reborn again and again... but that is no reason not to worship ... pray... just because you have a weakness for sex...

Anyone can worship God.. but... lets put it THIS WAY... if someone were a Heroine addict, injecting themselves with drugs,... they could still be a Hindu... and worship...but....it is not ADVISED or ENCOURAGED... to be a drug user..... whatever your situation... you may worship... and it is beneficial... but some life-styles are more beneficial spiritually... and others are less beneficial....

In fact,... even in Christianity... if you visit an Episcopal Church... you will find pamplets which encourage even sexually active Gay men and women , to receive Holy Communion.

So the Episcopal Church is one of the uniquely compassionate Christian denominations.... recognizing Holy Communion as a medine to cure our weaknesses, our illnesses.. not as a REWARD, for haveing become perfect , and sinless.

For example... if you want to go to the gymnasium and work out... but you Love to Eat Ice Cream... well... you can still go the the gym and exercise... but... you will not become an athlete AS QUICKLY ... as if you also stop eating ICE CREAM... but.. it is still beneficial to exercise... EVEN WHILE YOU CONTINUE TO EAT ICE CREAM....

If you find the right place... the right kind of hindu group.. or ba'hai or buddhist.. wherever you feel most comfortable....

you see.. you ask me "is that ok"... well very few religious groups will say "YOU MUST HAVE MORE AND MORE SEX... with as many women as possible...etc etc... TO BE SAVED".. you will find some religious groups who say "Oh, ... if you have lots of sex,.. outside of marriage... you cant come here.. you will go to hell"...

But other groups say "Well, if you have lots of sex you may come and worship with us... but one day you should try to have less sex..."... .

..but you will not find so many groups who say "Oh, youre not having enought sex... and you should be smoking and drinking more too... or you will not be saved..." .... you MIGHT find some group which says this ... but they are a VERY STRANGE GROUP.. .. and it is better to stay away from them....

You see.. if you believe God is truly merciful... well just like your Mother and Father.. if they open your bedroom door.. and SEE you engaged in sexual activity.. they wont MURDER you or TORTURE you for all ETERNITY.... right?...

No.. they will just close the door,...and go away... and smile... and say... Oh...now he is a teenage boy.... he needs to engage in sexual activity... but we still love him.... later... he will change... become different... more mature...

(end of website excerpts)

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Manjoola: But you are talking about people obsessed with sex, I am talking about a normal person. Lets see my point this way. A person is looking for a perfect partner for himself/herself; why not experiment?

Sitaram: If you had great spiritual balance, equanimity, you could find happiness even in arraged marriage, Gandhi found happiness with Kasturbai (a marriage arranged at age 6).

If you have very great balance, you can find happiness in bramacharya (celibacy). If you have little balance, you will find no happiness even with many partners and experimentation.

Sitaram: But you will be compelled to do what is in your nature, even Gita says this, to work out your samskaras, and let your karma ripen.

Manjoola: But I can only think about this life, and in this life, having sex with someone you love cant be termed "bad".

Manjoola: You are saying that having sex with more than one person means not being spiritually balanced?

Sitaram: What you ultimately will or will not do is not really necessarily in your immediate control in this particular lifetime. Your actions are based on samskaras (impressions,tendencies) of past experiences,...which must unfold and be worked out, like knots, as your karma ripens. You will find your own path, and forge your own morality during this process. And your moral and ethical code may well change and evolve as you change and evolve in this present life. As J. Krisnamurthi said, "Truth is a pathless land", you must be a pioneer and blaze your own path. But you shall not be able to know with any certaintity what constitutes absolute Dharma, Righteousness, Justice or Goodness. Consider it a blessing that you are even concerned to ask such questions,... many do not even question, but simply act.

Manjoola: As a teenager, if I see an attractive boy, I naturally want to have sex with him. But then I think of my parents saying this is wrong. so I question why is it wrong? Sex is also made for enjoyment, and not necessarily only for reproduction.

Manjoola: Am I abnormal if I desire sex with many people?

Sitaram: Your desire does not denote abnormal vs normal... it does not denote "imbalanced" or "balanced". The scale of degrees of spiritual perfection are infinitely varying. There are even murderers who have some greater degree of mercy or compassion, when compared to more heartless, sadistic murderers. And there are saints with personality weaknesses and moral imperfections who are at a lower spiritual level that other, more advanced saints. Whether or not you engage in more or less sexual activity.... or even if you are celibate....the point is, you will find no happiness or peace. Happiness through sense pleasure is an illusion. You will always feel an emptiness and a dissatisfaction. Only when you turn your attention to the ultimate cause of that emptiness and dissatisfaction will you begin your journey on the road to peace.

Manjoola: Really?

Sitaram: This perennial emptiness and dissatisfaction in the aftermath of all enjoyments and indulgence is the real point which lies at the heart of your dilemma, and not moral issues of what is right or wrong in your actions.

Manjoola: Why would I feel emptiness? I liked this guy and we shared love.

Manjoola: I am age 15 (female) . The boy I like is age 20.

Sitaram: Hmmm. I see. As you grow older, you will come to understand the emptiness which I describe, and you will remember this day, and our conversation and my words. Being so young, it is natural that you are curious about your body, and what sex is like. You may also possibly feel intoxicated by the power which a young attractive woman has over those many men who desire to be with her.

Manjoola: So, what should I do now?

Sitaram: You must search for the answer to that in your heart. Nothing that I can possibly tell you will help you in that search. You must find the answer for yourself for it to be meaninful to you.

Manjoola: I have been searching for so long.

Sitaram: When you are spiritually ripe to hear the words, then and only then will you be able to hear them and understand the meaning. And that may not happen for many lifetimes. If you read through my website, you will find useful ideas.

Manjoola: I am kind of person who listens to her mind. Is it too late for me?

Sitaram: No, it is never too late. You shall be born again and again until you reach ultimate spiritual perfection. The very fact that you ask such questions means that you are already on a good path.

Manjoola: Please dont tell me about rebirth. those things are so unconvincing!

Sitaram: When you come to a tailor he can only tell you of needles and threads. You come to me, I can only tell you what I know.

Manjoola: My boyfriend is not Indian, and I know to make him happy I would have to have sex with him.

Sitaram: So, he cannot love you without the sex?

Manjoola: Im not sure. I am trying to think of ways to keep him happy cause I love him.

Sitaram: That statement in itself says a lot!

Sitaram: It reveals many things , both about you and him. As you said yourself, you dont know him well, you dont know yourself well, and perhaps you are not certain what "love" means.

Manjoola: I am only 15 and I want things to be clear! Im afraid he wont marry me if he thinks I am a prude.

Sitaram: Clarity only comes with time and experience.

Manjoola: What is love?

Sitaram: To quote an old song from my childhood, "Love is a many-speldored thing". Another old song from 1950's "Falling in love with love is falling for make-believe".

Manjoola: But give me a definition of love!

Sitaram: Books are filled with definitions of love. A definition from a book will have no meaning for you. You must ultimately BECOME in some fashion an embodiment of love. As Gandhi said once "my LIFE is my message". Your own life must reflect any definition of love that will be meaningful to you. And if you "love" yourself, then you will not let yourself be used and exploited in a dishonerable fashion. And if you cannot love yourself, then how will you be able to love another?

Manjoola: But is my definition of love incomplete?

Sitaram: The physical world is a process of BECOMING; it is not BEING. As long as there IS a physical world, as long as we are born repeatedly into physical bodies, then nothing can be COMPLETE but rather everything is BECOMING.

Manjoola: I dont understand.

Sitaram: Perhaps this answer is too philosophical for you at this stage in your life.

Manjoola: WHEN WILL MY DEFINITION OF LOVE BE COMPLETE?

Sitaram: Your definition will be more complete when you become old like me.

Manjoola: But I need it NOW!

Sitaram: The NOW moment is always filled with NEEDS. This is the source of our suffering.

Sitaram: Your 20 year old boyfriend is wrong to attempt to take advantage of a 15 year old. That is a criminal act in many countries. You are not old enough, or experienced enough, at age 15, to be entitled to grant your free will consent for sexual activity with anyone. That is why the laws protect minors like you from such people who use and exploit. You will see. When he is finished with you and has had his fill of forbidden fruit, he will discard you like a kleenex tissue. I have seen it happen over and over, hundreds of times. If he loves you, what is wrong with waiting until marriage? Especially since he is older and will be able to earn a living sooner than you? The choices are all yours. You are master of your destiny in this respect.

Sitaram: Tell him: "It is easier to make a lover out of a friend, than it is to make a friend out of a lover. Don't you want to be my friend first?"

Sitaram: If you store gasoline next to a lighted candle, what do you think will eventually happen? If you keep playing with fire, you will eventually get burned.

Manjoola: Which fore am I playing with?

Sitaram: A Freudian slip, you said "fore-play", when you ment to say which FIRE am I playing with. Stay away from motel rooms, keep your clothes on, and go for movies, walks in parks. Get to know each others families, if possible.

Manjoola: Should I just stop seeing him?

Sitaram: Get to know other people too, before you settle on this one person as your life-partner. Tell him you are too young and inexperienced to make serious life-time commitments. Tell him if he sincerely cares about you, he will be content to be your friend and wait 3 yrs until you are at least 18.

Sitaram: Well then. Listen to your heart, and dont give away your goodies until the right person comes along, or perhaps you will regret it and feel cheap and used.

Manjoola: I think I am simply curious about boys right now.

Sitaram: You are probably correct. You are simply curious what boys are like.

Manjoola: I think I will dump him!

Sitaram: You see how quickly you change at this age. That is why the law protects you against such unscrupulous older people. Why hasn't this person found someone his own age?? Stick with boys your own age! Stick to just being friends, and keep your clothes on. One day you will thank me for this advice. Age 21 is plenty soon enought to start with all the bare naked sex stuff. You have many years to gain experience in sexual matters. Right now, concentrate on highschool, and making lots of different friends. Remember what I said about playing with fire, and gasoline. And dont experiment with alcohol or drugs with some guy, because then you will loose your inhibitions and wind up naked having intercourse.

Sitaram: Plus, here is a TRUE STORY! I knew a 14 yr old girl, who met a 19 yr old boy. She was "curious", so she didnt let him have sex, but she did let him kiss her vagina. She got HERPES from that one first time experience, which can never be cured!

Manjoola: What is Herpes?

Sitaram: It is a painful rash which keeps coming back to your genitals and mouth for the rest of your life. And you will give it to any other sexual partner. Dont ever go near anyone who has any kind of sores or blisters on penis or mouth. Be very careful! Always, ALWAYS use condums if you have to have sex. And condums will not protect against Herpes. You can get Herpes even from kissing.

Manjoola: Oh thats bad!

Sitaram: What you dont know CAN hurt you. So better if you hear it from me than never hear it from anyone.

Manjoola: So , we shouldn't indulge in lots of sex because it is so risky!

Sitaram: Stop and think. If you meet a guy who only takes you on 3 dates, keeps hinting at sex, and then dumps you cause you are a "prude", well, is it not very obvious that he just wanted to USE you for sexual pleasures, and did not care at all about you as a person, an individual.

Sitaram: Never trust any male, I mean completely, even if they are minister or priest or pandit or doctor or rabbi. They can seem very moral, but suddenly they will make a move on you, when you least expect it.

Manjoola: My Mom tells me that!

Sitaram: I am a male and age 51, so I know these things.

Manjoola: Gee, you are 51 and I am 15.

Sitaram: Ha, Ha! I didnt think about that!

Manjoola: This has been a very useful conversation, I must say! You finally did "come down to my level", where I could understand.

Sitaram: Glad if I can help.

Manjoola: Actually, you did help.

Sitaram: Dont even trust someone like me, who seems to be giving you well meaning, good advice. Dont trust any male, and assume that nothing could or would happen. Male sexuality is like a wild beast, let us say a tiger. We have all seen wildlife films depicting tigers or lions in the wild. They are very dangerous beasts. We have also visited zoos and circuses, and seen tigers in cages behind bars, and even trained tigers who perform tricks at their trainer's request and bidding. If you meet a very moral religious male, his sexuality is like that tiger in the zoo or in the circus. That moral male has placed his tiger of sexuality behind the bars of moral and ethical restraints. That does not mean that the wild beast no longer exists. That does not mean that this predatory killer never roars, never paces back and forth restlessly, eyeing potential victims with fiery glances. That tiger has been trained and restrained by discipline, moral and ethical values. That tiger seems very non-threatening. But when we visit the zoo, we would be very foolish to reach our hands into the cage to pet the tiger inside. The danger and threat is still present, but in a different, subdued form. Even the most skillful animal trainer in a circus, who commands the tigers and lions to do many amazing tricks, jumping through flaming hoops, that animal trainer will never be so foolish as to turn his back on those animals and assume that he is totally safe.

Manjoola: So I should wait until I am 18 to have sex?

Sitaram: At least! Even better, wait until you are 21. There is plenty of time for that sort of thing in your 20's. It is BEST if you can save yourself until marriage. But very few young people seem to be able to do that these days.

Manjoola: Sometimes I dont know how to deal with the way men stare at me...

Sitaram: All men are looking at women, trying to imagine them naked, in bed naked, or squatting naked in some lewd position. That is the nature of "the male beast". Anyone 18 or older who flirts with 15 year old girl is a child molester. It is even shameful even for a boy age 17.

Manjoola: He doesnt flirt, just wants to be friends.

Sitaram: That's what YOU THINK! Dont trust anyone, sex, and a woman's body, is like a drug for males. Some men will be strong and honorable and resist temptation, but all will feel the temptation. There are only a minority of males with real moral character who would step back and say "this is inappropriate, you should talk to your mother".

Sitaram: If you don't believe the truth of what I say, then try this experiment sometime (but it is a very dangerous experiment). Pick anyone you think of as safe, like a big brother or father figure, and drop 'hints",very subtle hints, that you might be interested in a secret affair with them. Watch their eyes light up, as they steer the conversation towards the possibility of doing something sexual with you, seduction.

Manjoola: I try not to be seductive. I do dress modestly.

Sitaram: Forbidden fruit looks more tempting and delicious than slutty looking, easy, loose, promiscuous girls.

Sitaram: Dont ever advertise the fact that you are a virgin. If someone asks you about your status, make some cryptic answer like "I was hurt once... now I am more careful". If they suspect you are a VIRGIN, many boys will chase after you simply to be "the first".

Sitaram: You will find a true measure of love when you are older, and have a child of your own, as a mother to your child. But your child will never return that love to you in the measure that you desire. A mother's love for her child is one of the greatest loves which humans can experience. And it is a pure and selfless love.

(Continuation of chat with Manjoola next day in Yahoo):

(Manjoola and I continued our conversation again today):

Sitaram: Please visit my latest browser page dialogue: A Teenage Girl Questions Sexual Morality

Sitaram: I though you would like that! I changed your name to Manjoola to protect your identity.

Manjoola: By why did you choose the name Manjoola? Any special reason?

Sitaram: Because I once knew a Manjoola from Calcutta, and the name seems very sweet to me.

Manjoola: But I have another question. Won't it be wrong for me to perceive all males as viewing me in that fashion which you describe?

Sitaram: But sadly, what I have described is very accurate with regard to how males think. Better for you to make an error in being overly cautious than an error in the opposite direction.

Sitaram: Did you not say that your own mother has told you something similar about male?

Manjoola: Yes, but...

Sitaram: Well.. now TWO people have told you the same thing, one female, and the other male.

Manjoola: So this is how I should always think?

Sitaram: You should always be cautious in the back of your mind.

Manjoola: OK, maybe I know what you mean. One more point, some females are not so reserved, why is that? They did not get right guidance or something.

Sitaram: Our modern society, movies, songs, media, teaches all young people to be sexually foreward, promiscuous, and teaches girls to act like men, lusty.

Manjoola: I dont like that. that creates bad impression of the female then.

Sitaram: I will tell you a little true story, about a little girl age 5 on the subway with her mother, holding her BARBIE doll, and asking her mother questions. The little girl was very worried that the Barbie doll's dress would fall down and that the dolls breasts would be visible.

Sitaram: Then, suddenly she said to her mother, "But mommy, sometimes a girl shows her breasts to people, and that is ok, right?"

Sitaram: So, you see, the little girl, age 5, had been watching lots of television, or had seen a magazine, showing a woman with naked breasts. Naturally, the child assumes that must be ok to do sometimes.

Manjoola: What a girl! Interesting question! What was the mothers answer?

Sitaram: Actually, the mother kept ignoring the little girls questions. Perhaps she was too busy thinking about her lover who would come to visit that night. Perhaps the little girl sees her mother with her lover. Who knows. But this is how little girls learn today in our society.

Sitaram: I spoke once to a Puerto Rican woman who told me that as a little girl, she woke up one night, peeked in her mothers bedroom, and saw her mother with a man performing all kinds of different sexual acts, and she became very frightened and began to cry muffled in her pillow.

Manjoola: how should I treat such girls when I meet them. contempt in my voice might become obvious.

Sitaram: Contempt in your voice? Yesterday, you sounded all ready to join their ranks and become sexually active with this 20 yr old boy. And once you get started, you wont stop once you break up with him. It is like eating potato chips, its hard to stop with just one. You will have another and another, and it will become an increasingly casual thing for you to do.

Manjoola: No, I was not going to join him right now, but perhaps when I am older.

Sitaram: Sow a thought, reap an action. Sow an action, reap a habit. Sow a habit, reap a character. Sow a character, reap a destiny.

Manjoola: How is it that these other girls behave in such a fashion? Did they simply not get the right guidance? Can they not control their passions and desires?

Sitaram: Concerning your attitude towards those females: many religions wisely advise us not to judge another. Judging others with contempt can have its own karmic consequences for ourselves. As we just others, so may we one day find ourselves suffering the same circumstances as them. The old saying "But for the Grace of God, there go I" is a good one.

Manjoola: so I should respect them anyway.

Sitaram: Yes, remember the saying I told you the other day: "A saint can see saintliness even in the worst sinner, but a sinner sees sinfulness even in the holiest saint."

Sitaram: Try to see the goodness in everyone, never judge, be slow to anger, quick to forgive, and always put yourself in anothers place, to understand how you might be the same way, if you were in their shoes with their experiences. Aristotle once said: A friend is another "I"

Manjoola: I have read similar saying in my Moral Science book, and when I did try to apply them in daily life, I felt more peaceful. On my moral science test, I was asked about the values which I give priority to in my life, and I gave first priority to "peace".

Sitaram: Yes peace, shanti, salaam, shalom, pax.... every religion speaks of peace as a goal.

Manjoola: The other priority I listed was "love".

Sitaram: Here is something for you written by Mother Theresa:

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It was never between you and them anyway 
Written By Mother Theresa 
People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered; Forgive them anyway. 
If you are kind, People may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives; Be kind anyway. 
If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies; Succeed anyway. 
If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you; Be honest and frank anyway. 
What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight; Build anyway. 
If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous; Be happy anyway. 
The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow; Do good anyway. 
Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough; Give the world the best you've got anyway. 
You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God; It was never between you and them anyway. 
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(one reader of this post, at sulekha.com, makes the following comment):

It is hard to rationalise the contradictions we have in religion about sexual morality. Therefore sexual morality need not be a fundamental moral issue. I think that it should be left to an individual's preferences. It all depends on the environment and culture in the society at that time. Most of our gods have more than one wife. Panchali had 5 husbands! Kunti became pregnant before marriage. Rama has put Sita to agni parakha, but he did not go through a similar test. I am of the humble opinion that Sri Sitaram is a trifle traditional and out of touch with the present thinking and values. The girl is entitled to have sex with as many boys she likes. All that she needs is advice on safe sex methods/practices and the consequences of indiscrete sex.

I posted the URL for this page, as follows

A Teenage Girl Questions Sexual Morality,

an interesting and useful dialogue.... and received the following reply:

reply posted from Lostboy:

Interesting? - debatable...

useful? -

The worst kind of sex education is the scare-mongering religious kind. The age of consent in Holland is 12, yet they have one of the lowest teenage pregnancy rates in the world. "Dumbing" down kids until they reach 18, as if thats a magic number, and overnight they suddenly become mature?

Scaring with Herpes through kissing the vagina is pretty sick - not the act thats sickening - but that anyone would use that as an example in such a biased prude self-righteous way. The woman giving the advice has some serious issues, and her own god-fearing nature should not inflict itself on the freedoms and pleasures, and own morals of others. Preying on gullability and fears that "god shall strike thee down if you think of sex" belongs in the middle ages along with the burning of witches, and the conclusions that one would go blind through masturbating.

"You can get Herpes even from kissing"?!?!?!?

Gee! Why not say "you can get run over by a car visiting that temple every morning crossing that busy road, so dont do it".Or "praying to God can really harm your lower back"?!

"Never trust any male, I mean completely, even if they are minister or priest or pandit or doctor or rabbi. They can seem very moral, but suddenly they will make a move on you, when you least expect it,"

What?!?! - I think you dug your own grave with that comment! Can I also add that all Muslims are fundamentalists, all Chinese are in bad moods, all Colombians are drug barons, and all Swedes are sex mad. (Thats the level of your argument).

You compare males with tigers, yet all humans have animal instincts - yet we also have the ability to control them - you make it seem that only men enjoy sex, and women hate it?

Save yourself until 18, then 21, then marriage? Why? If youve found someone you love then suddenly a magical number of paper certificate means more than two people who love each other?

WOW - its because of people like this that the world is how it is.

12/25/2000 (a young woman from Healthboard responds):

Sri Sitaram-

I also (like lostboy) found your post on the healthboard, and I must say that I take a stance between the two of you. I am a girl of 19, and I have had many 'lovers'. my mother gave me advice, just as you give yours to Manjoola, and a lot of it was similar. 'be mindful' is a good motto, but not for women only, or only against men.a woman who is not nice can be just as bad as a man who isn't nice,and though the harms aren't usually of the same nature, harm is harm.

I do believe, based on my own life, that 15 is far too young to be having sex. I did, and I remember the constant fears of pregnancy, where to get birth control, and what i would do if my mom caught me. she isn't quite as forgiving as god, I guess, and would probably have punished me well at that age. i have now been seeing the same boy for almost 2 years (since i was 17 1/2 and just out of high school). we go to university together, and for christmas, he gave me a promise ring. he and i have had a faithful and loving relationship almost since day one, and I trust him with my very life.

In the Christian bible, it says a woman shall leave her father and mother and cleave unto her husband. well, if I trust my parents, who have fed and clothed and housed me well for all these years, and i am to trust my husband enough to leave my home for his, that must be complete faith in him, or the deal isn't worth it. in the case of arranged marriage, this is even more important, as the two who marry do not necessarily know one another at all. there cannot yet be love, and so she must trust that he will provide for her and see that she may thrive, and he must trust that she tells him the truth and will be a good wife, and they must together trust in one another fully, or else there is no way the two will ever become as one, and know the true fullness of love, or be at peace. the niggling suspicions against your life partner if you do not give him/her implicit trust will never let your mind and heart rest or be quiet.(if you still disagree find any monk, catholic, buddhist, or any other you can find, and ask why he lives in a monastery. ask why a Muslim man goes to the mosque, or carries his own special place to pray. why did the Buddha wait for enlightenment under a tree, and not in the road? because all of them had to trust in the safety of their surroundings to ensure peace, stillness, and the quiet in which the 'I' may quit worrying about itself. is marriage anything less?) it is good to be mindful, yes, but good to be mindful of safety as well as danger. I do agree with you on many levels, but I am forced, perhaps by my age and environment or inexperience to disagree also.

ps - herpes isn't the same in the mouth and on the genitals. you might call it two species of the same animal. herpes labialis and vaginal or genital herpes are very different, one being oral cold sores, and the other genital warts. they share that they are viral, but oral cold sores do go away, and generally surface only when the immune system is weakened. herpe- is from the greek herpeton meaning reptile and as such is used medically as an adjective to refer to any small blisters on the skin or mucous membrane including shingles, or chickenpox. (from websters deluxe second edition unabridged dictionary and info sheet from my eight grade health class)

(on 1/3/2001, Solomio writes):

You said "Save yourself until 18, then 21, then marriage? Why? If youve found someone you love then suddenly a magical number of paper certificate means more than two people who love each other?"

Regardless of the "paper certificate", I think you want to make sure that the person you are going to share yourself with is the same person that you are going to share your life with. Many people get "lost" somewhere in between and complications may arise. It is usually best to wait if you can, thus negating any unnecessary issues. If the person in question is truly your life partner, then the wait will be worthwhile. Do you agree that there is far more to any intimate relationship than merely sex?