Friday, December 30, 2005
Ethical Problems
SITARAM: visit the sites I am creating for my internet friends in Africa to learn to run and use
SITARAM: http://www.voicesofafricaunited.myfreeforum.org
SITARAM: http://voicesofafricaunited.blogspot.com
SITARAM: and my first new blog http://literarydiscussions.blogspot.com
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: how are things going? I tapped into your old blog and the material was very interesting.
SITARAM: my photo is at literarydiscussions.blogspot.com
SITARAM: i was talking about your landing at Normandy at age 19 3 weeks after the invasion,....with someone, as i described what my father told me of the landing,... and my friend could not understand how anyone survived...
SITARAM: but i explained that many survived, obviously, since they went on to liberate Paris
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: I just printed our correspondence out. I didn't know I could do that. I saved a lot of writing and I can access them at my leisure.
SITARAM: i explained that my dad was in the fifth wave of the landing, and at the one that was less fierce... cant remember if it is Utah beach,.... or the other beach...
SITARAM: Omaha beach...
SITARAM: i keep forgetting little words that i should know, and terms
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: There must have been great heroism and Normandy and a great deal of inventive combat, because they lost communication with the men fighting on the beachhead and theoretically they were pinned down so mercilessly and so hopelessly that they should have been slaughtered and forced back into the sea. But somehow they improvised and got the upper hand. I watched a number of episodes on the history channel and that is what they said. Somehow during the lull in communications they improvised and won out. Most
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Most of them must have died who won the battle and there is no record of how they overcame such a tragic situation.
SITARAM: they claim that what characterizes the American fighter, is a kind of John Wayne, the hero private or sergeant... who in a pinch, improvises.... American space craft are like planes... the pilot has much control, is active.... whereas communist space craft are controlled by ground and astronaut is more or less passive, along for the ride...
SITARAM: what i heard was... if an army is conditioned to follow one authoritarian figure... and that leader disappears... then they cannot improvise... but... I’ve every one is a John Wayne when leadership disappears... then this is more of the independent democratic spirit...
SITARAM: perhaps that is an over implication
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Omaha beach was the real tragic battle. I remember walking up the beach and a sand trail when they were fighting farther inland. I didn't know your father was in the fifth wave at Utah beach.
SITARAM: i must get more details from him...
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: What outfit was your father in? What was his role in the army?
SITARAM: he was with that grandson of Teddy Roosevelt...
SITARAM: the one who walked up and down the beach with his little dog and no helmet
SITARAM: under fire...
SITARAM: he died shortly afterwards i think of heart failure...
SITARAM: well... some days after the battle... some men were ordered to build an outdoor shower, and my dad saw that Roosevelt fellow in their... and some private walked up to him and asked if he would scrub his back (not knowing his rank)... and Roosevelt did it
SITARAM: my dad said there was nothing stuck up about the man
SITARAM: or aloof
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: I never heard about that. Then again, I never heard about a lot of things that went on. I really didn’t know too much about Eisenhower until I got back to the States and everyone was so impressed with him.
SITARAM: my dad sent me a book, paperback, that the 4th division published, with war stories from everyone they could find... my dad wrote one chapter...
SITARAM: he went in one barn, and found all these glass grenades
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: His story must be very interesting. I would like to read it sometime. Or a synopsis of it.
SITARAM: on the troop ship, they passed out a pamphlet about "finding god in a fox hole"... my dad read it.... the first night he spent in a fox hole... he thought about the pamphlet, and waited... but nothing every happened...
SITARAM: i have the book right here on my shelf....
SITARAM: my dad saw Hemingway every day..... Hemingway would come into the tent where my dad worked as supply sergeant
SITARAM: i got to sit for an hour, in 1992, and talk with one of Hemmingway’s jeep drivers (who has since passed away)...
SITARAM: my dad said Hemingway’s OTHER jeep driver was Izzy Goldstein, who had a business for years in the Empire State bldg
SITARAM: Hemingway always carried a canteen filled with gin or scotch, or whatever he could find
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Maybe something did happen. He is still alive and in one piece, so I don't think he can quarrel about the lack of communication. To survive the whole war as a combat infantry man is a remarkable feat. it takes, I believe, more than just dumb luck.
SITARAM: "Moveable Feast" Hemingway’s account of the years in Paris, in the 1920s-30s speaks a lot about alcohol problems of writers
SITARAM: F. Scott Fitzgerald had quite a problem... Hemingway speaks of it
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: His communication with God was just a one way street but probably effective. Still he had the peace of mind to get through it all.
SITARAM: yes... my dad is unique.... actually, he is quite moral and ethical, in spite of being rather agnostic
SITARAM: he had a close friend who was professor of microbiology in Baltimore.... and on a business trip, he stayed with him, and his friends wife.... now... i met them at a convention, when i was 21
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Alcohol was a great soother. Just about every combat soldier drank the French wine when we could get our hands on it. Fortunately there was a great supply and the French were generous with it.
SITARAM: the woman was something of a nymphomaniac.... 10 minutes after her husband drove off... she ran in my fathers room, and jumped on him, and he had to wrestle her off, and he said "i cant do this to my friend"
SITARAM: well, when i was 21, i sat next to the same woman at a dinner table... and under the table, she put her hand on my leg.... now i was thinking about entering the monastery at that point...
SITARAM: i was so shocked, i spoke aloud, and said WHY ARE YOU TOUCHING ME.... and the whole table was embarrassed...
SITARAM: but.. my goodness... how some people behave...
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: That's quite a story. Glad to hear that your father was noble in that situation.
Strange that her husband didn't get wise to her antics.
SITARAM: well.... perhaps the husband knew and looked the other way
SITARAM: who knows....
SITARAM: but... my dad was close friends with one of the vice presidents of Cheesborough Ponds, who was devout catholic man with wife and 6 kids...
SITARAM: so... at a convention, a young sales woman came by his room to get something....
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Maybe. Maybe he saw like Hemingway's character in The Sun also Rises. A war tragedy that left all of them unhappy .
SITARAM: she asked to use the bathroom,... and a few minutes later, jumped out naked... well this man was so upstanding, that he said.... "Well, why don’t you put on some clothes and we shall go out and have some dinner
SITARAM: the young woman said "gee, this is the first time i had to put some clothes ON to get a dinner
SITARAM: my dad has quite a prankish sense of humor....
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Sounds like an interesting anecdote. I wonder how true it is?
SITARAM: oh... i knew the man myself... and i totally believe it
SITARAM: he was simply not the sort who would fabricate such a thing
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: I mean the other man. Not your father.
SITARAM: that is who i mean too... the VP
SITARAM: i knew him.... and he was just very proper and straight laced and conservative and serious
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Why don't you write a short story, with a plot about the effect this had on the man and how it change his point of view?
SITARAM: good idea..
SITARAM: they say that literature is philosophy in motion
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Or rather how he got deeper and deeper into trouble and then got out of it by something set up earlier in the story. Or a combination of both things.
SITARAM: sometimes, i think of that Sophie's Choice, which is supposed based on a true story
SITARAM: in one book store there is a big philosophy section, with an entire shelf JUST on ethics
SITARAM: books like "Ethics for Dummies" (you know that series)
SITARAM: and "Ethics 101"....
One ethic book describes an hypothetical scenario where you are a school teacher, with a class of 30 children, and terrorists seize you, and tell you that IF you choose one child and kill that child then all the other children will be let go, free, BUT if you refuse to choose and kill, then all children will be killed. The book argues that it is unethical to comply with the terrorist’s request. The “right” of saving 29 children does not outweigh the wrong of killing the one. And you have no guarantee that the terrorist will keep his word.
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Well, I have written all that I can at this time. I will look at your latest blog and your picture and write again. Goodbye for now.
SITARAM: http://www.voicesofafricaunited.myfreeforum.org
SITARAM: http://voicesofafricaunited.blogspot.com
SITARAM: and my first new blog http://literarydiscussions.blogspot.com
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: how are things going? I tapped into your old blog and the material was very interesting.
SITARAM: my photo is at literarydiscussions.blogspot.com
SITARAM: i was talking about your landing at Normandy at age 19 3 weeks after the invasion,....with someone, as i described what my father told me of the landing,... and my friend could not understand how anyone survived...
SITARAM: but i explained that many survived, obviously, since they went on to liberate Paris
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: I just printed our correspondence out. I didn't know I could do that. I saved a lot of writing and I can access them at my leisure.
SITARAM: i explained that my dad was in the fifth wave of the landing, and at the one that was less fierce... cant remember if it is Utah beach,.... or the other beach...
SITARAM: Omaha beach...
SITARAM: i keep forgetting little words that i should know, and terms
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: There must have been great heroism and Normandy and a great deal of inventive combat, because they lost communication with the men fighting on the beachhead and theoretically they were pinned down so mercilessly and so hopelessly that they should have been slaughtered and forced back into the sea. But somehow they improvised and got the upper hand. I watched a number of episodes on the history channel and that is what they said. Somehow during the lull in communications they improvised and won out. Most
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Most of them must have died who won the battle and there is no record of how they overcame such a tragic situation.
SITARAM: they claim that what characterizes the American fighter, is a kind of John Wayne, the hero private or sergeant... who in a pinch, improvises.... American space craft are like planes... the pilot has much control, is active.... whereas communist space craft are controlled by ground and astronaut is more or less passive, along for the ride...
SITARAM: what i heard was... if an army is conditioned to follow one authoritarian figure... and that leader disappears... then they cannot improvise... but... I’ve every one is a John Wayne when leadership disappears... then this is more of the independent democratic spirit...
SITARAM: perhaps that is an over implication
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Omaha beach was the real tragic battle. I remember walking up the beach and a sand trail when they were fighting farther inland. I didn't know your father was in the fifth wave at Utah beach.
SITARAM: i must get more details from him...
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: What outfit was your father in? What was his role in the army?
SITARAM: he was with that grandson of Teddy Roosevelt...
SITARAM: the one who walked up and down the beach with his little dog and no helmet
SITARAM: under fire...
SITARAM: he died shortly afterwards i think of heart failure...
SITARAM: well... some days after the battle... some men were ordered to build an outdoor shower, and my dad saw that Roosevelt fellow in their... and some private walked up to him and asked if he would scrub his back (not knowing his rank)... and Roosevelt did it
SITARAM: my dad said there was nothing stuck up about the man
SITARAM: or aloof
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: I never heard about that. Then again, I never heard about a lot of things that went on. I really didn’t know too much about Eisenhower until I got back to the States and everyone was so impressed with him.
SITARAM: my dad sent me a book, paperback, that the 4th division published, with war stories from everyone they could find... my dad wrote one chapter...
SITARAM: he went in one barn, and found all these glass grenades
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: His story must be very interesting. I would like to read it sometime. Or a synopsis of it.
SITARAM: on the troop ship, they passed out a pamphlet about "finding god in a fox hole"... my dad read it.... the first night he spent in a fox hole... he thought about the pamphlet, and waited... but nothing every happened...
SITARAM: i have the book right here on my shelf....
SITARAM: my dad saw Hemingway every day..... Hemingway would come into the tent where my dad worked as supply sergeant
SITARAM: i got to sit for an hour, in 1992, and talk with one of Hemmingway’s jeep drivers (who has since passed away)...
SITARAM: my dad said Hemingway’s OTHER jeep driver was Izzy Goldstein, who had a business for years in the Empire State bldg
SITARAM: Hemingway always carried a canteen filled with gin or scotch, or whatever he could find
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Maybe something did happen. He is still alive and in one piece, so I don't think he can quarrel about the lack of communication. To survive the whole war as a combat infantry man is a remarkable feat. it takes, I believe, more than just dumb luck.
SITARAM: "Moveable Feast" Hemingway’s account of the years in Paris, in the 1920s-30s speaks a lot about alcohol problems of writers
SITARAM: F. Scott Fitzgerald had quite a problem... Hemingway speaks of it
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: His communication with God was just a one way street but probably effective. Still he had the peace of mind to get through it all.
SITARAM: yes... my dad is unique.... actually, he is quite moral and ethical, in spite of being rather agnostic
SITARAM: he had a close friend who was professor of microbiology in Baltimore.... and on a business trip, he stayed with him, and his friends wife.... now... i met them at a convention, when i was 21
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Alcohol was a great soother. Just about every combat soldier drank the French wine when we could get our hands on it. Fortunately there was a great supply and the French were generous with it.
SITARAM: the woman was something of a nymphomaniac.... 10 minutes after her husband drove off... she ran in my fathers room, and jumped on him, and he had to wrestle her off, and he said "i cant do this to my friend"
SITARAM: well, when i was 21, i sat next to the same woman at a dinner table... and under the table, she put her hand on my leg.... now i was thinking about entering the monastery at that point...
SITARAM: i was so shocked, i spoke aloud, and said WHY ARE YOU TOUCHING ME.... and the whole table was embarrassed...
SITARAM: but.. my goodness... how some people behave...
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: That's quite a story. Glad to hear that your father was noble in that situation.
Strange that her husband didn't get wise to her antics.
SITARAM: well.... perhaps the husband knew and looked the other way
SITARAM: who knows....
SITARAM: but... my dad was close friends with one of the vice presidents of Cheesborough Ponds, who was devout catholic man with wife and 6 kids...
SITARAM: so... at a convention, a young sales woman came by his room to get something....
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Maybe. Maybe he saw like Hemingway's character in The Sun also Rises. A war tragedy that left all of them unhappy .
SITARAM: she asked to use the bathroom,... and a few minutes later, jumped out naked... well this man was so upstanding, that he said.... "Well, why don’t you put on some clothes and we shall go out and have some dinner
SITARAM: the young woman said "gee, this is the first time i had to put some clothes ON to get a dinner
SITARAM: my dad has quite a prankish sense of humor....
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Sounds like an interesting anecdote. I wonder how true it is?
SITARAM: oh... i knew the man myself... and i totally believe it
SITARAM: he was simply not the sort who would fabricate such a thing
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: I mean the other man. Not your father.
SITARAM: that is who i mean too... the VP
SITARAM: i knew him.... and he was just very proper and straight laced and conservative and serious
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Why don't you write a short story, with a plot about the effect this had on the man and how it change his point of view?
SITARAM: good idea..
SITARAM: they say that literature is philosophy in motion
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Or rather how he got deeper and deeper into trouble and then got out of it by something set up earlier in the story. Or a combination of both things.
SITARAM: sometimes, i think of that Sophie's Choice, which is supposed based on a true story
SITARAM: in one book store there is a big philosophy section, with an entire shelf JUST on ethics
SITARAM: books like "Ethics for Dummies" (you know that series)
SITARAM: and "Ethics 101"....
One ethic book describes an hypothetical scenario where you are a school teacher, with a class of 30 children, and terrorists seize you, and tell you that IF you choose one child and kill that child then all the other children will be let go, free, BUT if you refuse to choose and kill, then all children will be killed. The book argues that it is unethical to comply with the terrorist’s request. The “right” of saving 29 children does not outweigh the wrong of killing the one. And you have no guarantee that the terrorist will keep his word.
GEOMETRY_TEACHER: Well, I have written all that I can at this time. I will look at your latest blog and your picture and write again. Goodbye for now.
