Friday, June 17, 2011

Love Your Enemies---Augustine

Love Your Enemies---Augustine

by Roger - 

It is necessary for you to say in that daily prayer of cleansing, "Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors." What will you do? You have enemies, for who can live on this earth without them? For your own sake, love them. In no way can your enemies so hurt you by their violence as you hurt yourself if you do not love them....

Let your prayer be against the malice of your enemies, that it may die and they may live. For if your enemy were dead, it might seem you have lost an enemy, yet you have not found a friend. But if your enemy's malice died, you have at once lost an enemy and found a friend....Why are you forever trailing your heart along the earth? Lift up your heart, reach forward, love your enemies.

William: You mean ... Like ... Osama bin Laden?

I did a long series of posts on SHADENFREUDE which is a Jewish concept (I am not Jewish by the way) which means that we should not rejoice at the sufferings of others. I posted when I read that "Washington is JUBILANT over bin Laden's Death" . A lot of "Christians" demonstrated to me by their reactions that they don't know SQUAT about loving their enemy. There enemy, in their mind is their next door right wing conservative neighbor whose dog craps on their lawn, so they are pissed at each other for a while, and then they remember Christ's words "they shall know you by your love for one another" and then they are all buddy buddy again. One Republican in a small town told me she lives out the life Christ intended because sometimes she helps her Republican neighbor shovel the snow off his driveway. BIG HAIRY DEAL. Try loving your real enemy and repaying evil with kindness.

Tim: Good post William...but I'm still grateful Osama got half his head blown off. Either he's hooked up God's mercy or his fantasy of 77 virgins...which may turn out to be a gang of ugly, toothless meth freaks.

William: which just supports my point that most wannabe Christians simply don't "get" the point of a lot of what Jesus said (and I am not a Christian so this is not about one-upsman-ship)

Tim: And I'm not a "wanna be"

William: Sure you are, your words reveal it... you gloat over the suffering and death of people you see as evil... your own words reveal that: (you wrote) I'm still grateful Osama got half his head blown off. Either he's hooked up God's mercy or his fantasy of 77 virgins...which may turn out to be a gang of ugly, toothless meth freaks. - most people are clueless as to what Christianity is all about. They make it up as they go along. They pick and choose like a cafeteria. No one is lobbying to criminalize divorce in America, absolutely NO ONE, but one of the few things Jesus CLEARLY condemns. Even Newt Gingrich calls himself "the HONORABLE" but he married his geometry teacher out of high school (17 years older) had three children, had an AFFAIR in the middle of the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal... and he thinks everything is honky dory because "he asked God to forgive him."

Jesus CLEARLY states that anyone who calls someone else RACA (fool) will answer severely. I doubt that the importance of that sinks into many people's heads much lest influences the way they live their daily lives.

Tim: For a non-believer...you sure like to ramble on about those who you have no knowledge of. Anyway, you're in good company with Roger. Maybe it will temper your hubris with wisdom. Taking yourself so seriously induces stress. Chillax.

William: Shakespeare wrote a play called "Measure for Measure" and the title comes from Jesus words (paraphrased) "with what measure you measure out unto others so shall it be measured out unto you." People who truly understand this do not demean themselves by name calling, profanity, threats of physical violence. And such undesirable behavior is the knee-jerk reaction of right wing conservatives and is less frequent in left-wing people, and this is obvious when we watch episodes of Wm. F. Buckley, Jr. (Roman Catholic) "Firing Line" where he frequently becomes angry, curses and threatens to punch people in the nose BUT if you watch interviews with Noam Chomsky you never once see a threat of physical violence or hear foul language.

Tim: Then why did you just call me a wanna-be and judge my character?

William: Is it not ironic that you are quick to say that bin Laden's associates are toothless meth addicts when I am certain you have no way to know anything about those people and then you accuse me when I am taking your own words at face value. I am sure you are a very nice and decent person by contemporary American standards but I see no hint in your words that you are a Christian.

I said that the vast majority of Americans are "wannabe Christians" who do not have a clue as to what Christianity is all about and that includes people like Huckabee and also some of the television ministers like Joel Osteen and even Billy Graham.

Jesus said that the good person brings forth good things from the good treasury of the heart and the good tree produces good fruit but the evil person brings forth evil things from the wicked treasury of their hearts. We are judged by every word which proceeds from our mouth. So anyone who gossips or name-calls casts doubt upon their Christian convictions. And even if I am your enemy you are supposed to rejoice when people say all manner of evil things about you falsely for Christ's sake for your reward in heaven will be great. So if I am wrong then why are you angry? Why do you not repay evil with good and heap coals of condemnation upon my head?

In the 6th century, St. John Climacus, author of "The Ladder of Divine Ascent" said "You shall recognize the righteous at the judgment because their heads will be hung low and they will say 'We have done nothing worthy.' " And Jesus said b
asically the same thing in a parable about those who say "Lord! Lord! We have worked miracles in your name" and Jesus says "I never knew you" but others come and he says "I was hungry and you fed me" and they say "When did we do these things" (and you would imagine that someone appearing before a powerful judge would not object when the judge says they are innocent BUT they are so honest that they question when they did such good works.)

Tim: 
Sorry Bill, you did not answer the question. When you said, 
"sure you are"...you called me a wanna-be--thus, engaging in a beviour that you doth protesteth much about. Characterizing Joel Osteen, Billy Graham & Mike Huckabee as "not having
a clue" about Christianity is no different than those you expend a lot of energy railing & flailing against.

All  I said to start this was that I was grateful that Osama got half his head blown off and stand by that with the perfect peace that surpasses all understanding. God Bless Your Heart.

William: You would profit more if you examine yourself for your shortcoming than by arguing with others about your virtues. Somewhere in the Old Testament God asks "Do you think that I rejoice at the death of a sinner. No, I would that all might be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth" ... yet you are saying that you rejoice at the death of a sinner. You must ask yourself if this is right.

Tim: Again...you did not answer the questions posed, nor have you read my posts. That tells you're either unable or unwilling to engage in any meaningful & mature dialog. So, I'll try this one more time. Being grateful that a mass-murderer is no longer alive to commit more atrocities against humanity is quite different that "rejoicing". I've no desire or need to engage in any kind of scripture war....nor am I willing to get sucked into the vortex of hubris inflated semantics. If you'd like to start back at square one and give this another shot...I'm game. If not...that's OK for today. Have a great evening.

William: Tim, obviously you have a high opinion of yourself and are unwilling to entertain my suggestion that perhaps "you have been weighed and found wanting" which was the "handwriting on the wall" which no one could understand until Prophet Daniel was called to interpret it. In my opinion the majority of people who call themselves Christians are "weighed and found wanting." Tim: it is unlikely that you would ever take me seriously. Why do you even care what my personal opinion is? If you feel that you are a good Christian then that should be sufficient. You should have faith that God knows your heart even if all the world reviles you. I suspect that your notion of "meaningful and mature dialogue" is if you win and I lose. St. Paul said that "all people have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"... so was Paul speaking to everyone EXCEPT you? I don't think you have to worry about a "scripture war" since I have not yet seen you refer to a single verse of scripture. I did notice that you spoke a few words in the King James dialect, or what you imagine is Biblical language (when you wrote, "engaging in a behavior that you doth protesteth much about"). I am sorry if my assessment of the majority of "wannabe Christians" offends you but that is the conclusion I have come to and I am not likely to change it any time soon. A humble person would walk away because Paul advises "not to engage in vain disputation." Being Christian has a lot to do with humility and with admitting ones own shortcomings.



Comments: Post a Comment



<< Home

This page is powered by Blogger. Isn't yours?